[Editor’s note: Former Congressman Jody Hice (Ga.) interviewed Family Research Council President Tony Perkins about his visit to Kyiv for the Ukraine National Prayer Breakfast. This transcript has been edited for readability, and you can watch the interview here.]

Jody Hice: It’s now been more than four and a half years since Russia launched their massive full-scale invasion of Ukraine, escalating the localized regional conflict there into what has now become the largest war in Europe since World War II. And now the war has entered into an even more deadly phase. In fact, just overnight (Wednesday), Russia bombarded nine cities across Ukraine with missiles and drones. And this comes about a day after CIA Director John Ratcliffe visited Moscow, reportedly to warn Russia not to attack NATO member states.

So where does all of this seem to be headed and how can we be praying? Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council and host of “Washington Watch,” just returned from a trip to the Ukraine joins us now to talk about this.

Tony, we’re all eager to hear more about your trip to Ukraine. I know, among other things, you spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast there in Kyiv. It was their 35th anniversary of their independence and the end of Soviet Union. Here are some of the thoughts you gave in your address:

“There is no question that there is a war raging for Ukraine’s territory. But the battlefield that I believe we see reflects a greater battle being waged in the heavenlies, a battle for the soul of Ukraine, for the heart of its people.”

Hice: Powerful words. Tony, can you just share with us a little bit more of what the Lord put on your heart to share with them?

Perkins: Jody, it was an invitation from President Zelensky to come and speak at their National Prayer breakfast there in Kyiv. So I prayerfully considered it and ultimately decided to go and speak, and I’m glad I did. It was a long prayer breakfast which actually turned into a lunch prayer meeting as well. But my message was one that clearly presented the gospel. It was a message for the Ukrainian people of what really is happening there. I believe that what we see happening is much bigger than a geographical war. This is an effort of communism to reassert itself on this territory that they once claimed. Thirty-five years ago, as you mentioned, they celebrated their independence. It was the day after the prayer breakfast I was there. I met briefly with President Zelensky and was a part of their Independence Day celebration.

But my message was really from Matthew Chapter 12, where the house is cleaned, the demon is pushed out, but it’s left empty, and he finds seven of his friends and comes back. And the latter is worse than the former. And my message was, they as a nation, must declare their dependence upon God as they seek to preserve their independence. And it was a message that the Lord clearly laid on my heart, and I had an opportunity to meet with a number of the religious leaders who were encouraged by that message. But there is a lot going on in the Ukrainian territory, especially in those occupied territories. While I was there, I had a chance to meet with several of their officials and cabinet ministers to get a briefing on what is happening to churches — what is happening to children. And it’s quite alarming. And something that here in the United States, as believers — as members of the kingdom of God, a kingdom that has no borders — we should be concerned and praying for our brothers and sisters in Ukraine and elsewhere.

Hice: Absolutely. Are you at liberty to share with us some of the things that are happening? These are topics which are going under the radar here in the United States. We don’t hear about the church there. We don’t hear about what’s happening to the children and the pastors and Christian leaders and so forth. Can you share with us a little bit about what you experienced?

Perkins: This has now been going on for quite some time, and they’ve been able to document what the Russians are doing in these occupied territories. The USSR had the Russian Republic. You had the Russian Republic and Ukraine. The Russification that’s taking place now under Putin, under the Russian Federation, is eliminating the idea of Ukraine, of the Ukrainian history, the Ukrainian language. So in these occupied territories, the first thing they do is they go after the churches. They go after the evangelical churches, the Catholic churches. And there has been documented about 67 members of the clergy that have been killed or died as a result of torture. And in the place of these churches, the buildings themselves have been turned into government facilities of the occupiers — the Russians. And the only church that is allowed to exist is the Russian Orthodox Church, which has become a tool for the Russian state.

That’s alarming. The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom has documented this as well. So, it’s not just the Ukrainians that are making these claims. This has been verified by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. But even more disturbing is what’s happening to the children in these areas.

There’s this reeducation that’s taking place in the schools. Language is being changed over to Russian. These children are being forced to take on Russian identity. Their classification is changed. They’re forced to pledge an allegiance to Russia.

But even more than that, many of these children have been taken away. They have been sent to about 57 different sites at camps that have been identified in Russian territory where children are being re-educated. They’re being turned into Russians, many of them being placed up for adoption and put into foster care back in Russia with Russian families.

This is a form of genocide. This meets the definition of genocide by trying to totally eradicate an ethnic identity — the Ukrainian people — through this re-education that’s taking place. It’s quite alarming and something that is an anathema to the ideas, the ideals that America stands for.

So what should we as Christians we be doing? Number one, we should be praying. But number two, from my meeting with government leaders — they’re not looking for money. They’re not looking for military troops. They’re simply looking for materiel, military materiel like the interceptor missiles. Missiles like Patriot missiles. While I was there, each night, we had air raids as ballistic missiles were being fired. Not in Kyiv while we were there, but in surrounding areas. It appears that the Russians were pretty careful while the Americans were in the area. And as soon as we left, there was a pretty significant attack across the country.

Hice: You mentioned a little earlier the Ukrainian people, that you had an opportunity to speak with a number of them. What did you hear from them, and what was your impression of the Ukrainian people as a whole, as they are dealing with this war?

Perkins: They’re pretty resilient. It’s very similar to what I’ve experienced as I’ve been in Israel since October 7th, especially right after the attacks took place, where they felt isolated and alone. I think the Ukrainians feel isolated and alone. I will say I was a bit concerned at the Independence Day celebration that was outside the cathedral, the Saint Sophia Cathedral, a big open square, and many international leaders came. The Prime Minister of England was there, the President of Finland, and representatives from a number of countries, but the United States was not represented there, which sent, I think, an unfortunate message that we are not standing with the Ukrainians against this aggression of the Russians.

So I think they’re looking for America. Look, the whole world looks to America. And especially when it comes to being a defender of freedom, family, and faith. That’s the space that America has planted a flag on. And they in many ways feel abandoned, although greatly appreciative of what America has.

One thing that was repeatedly said to me was the fact that Melania Trump has drawn attention to the children that have been abducted and taken away from Ukraine into Russia. In fact, while I was there, the Minister of Family and Social Affairs talked about the reunification of a number of children that have been brought back from Russia just recently. So this is an ongoing effort to try to bring these children back to their families in the Ukraine. And they’re very appreciative of even the verbal support that America gives them in their fight against this Russian aggression.

Hice: You mentioned that they held off while Americans were there. But of course, a pretty severe bombing took place last night. And across the region, nine different cities. And it seems like both countries now are exchanging blows and the war is getting deadlier. It seems to have entered another phase. And yet Ukraine is so small compared to Russia. Is this a David and Goliath type fight, do you think?

Perkins: I think in part it is. But I will say that the resilience of Ukrainians is quite significant. Historically if you go back, Ukraine and that region — Russia kind of emerged from it. So Ukraine has a long history of being there. And the people have been quite resilient through the years. This is not their first rodeo.

I was able to speak with some of those who have been a part of developing some of the latest drone technology that has really changed the nature of warfare. Ukraine is leading on that front. One of the reasons that they are still in a position to fend off the Russians is through their drone technology, which is quite amazing what they’ve been able to do.

But these ballistic missiles that reach far into the Ukrainian territory and are quite big. And in fact, I went to several of the sites — schools, apartment complexes, shopping malls — that have been hit by these ballistic missiles in Kyiv, right there in the heart of the country. It’s still a situation where Ukraine ultimately has to have some support, not in military support in terms of troops on the ground. They have men and women that are willing to fight. They just need the materiel to do it.

Hice: Well, Tony, I know you will be doing this as well, but we certainly want to mobilize an effort to be praying for this situation. It is a desperate situation and a very important one. Thank you for taking time to go to Ukraine and for joining us today on “Washington Watch.” Blessings to you.